We have a jammed edition — in honor of our new website that we just launched! Bookmark it for our Hot Takes throughout the day and more news.
I have an exclusive interview with White House advisor John Podesta, my latest Harder Line column dives into the psychology of climate change and Anca has a timely Data Dive previewing the G20 meetings.
John Podesta is halfway through his promised two-year White House position leading the rollout of the biggest climate law in United States history, the Inflation Reduction Act, and its climate and energy incentives estimated to cost (at least) $369 billion over the next decade.
The veteran Washington operative has held senior positions in three White Houses over three decades. He’s seen a lot of change in that time, including the climate variety.
We caught up in a video interview on August 31, less than a month after the one-year anniversary of the IRA becoming law and a few days before the one-year mark of his appointment on September 2, 2022. Our conversation was edited for length and clarity.
Here are the highlights and click here for our full Q&A.
Q: To what degree do you see the oil industry as a good faith partner in the energy transition?
Podesta: I think they're all paying attention to what's happening around the world.
They know there's a lot of pressure coming for a transition towards clean energy, and they're in different stages and different places. They're not all the same, but they're engaged in the process of trying to anticipate what a clean energy world looks like and how to use their expertise to benefit. And particularly in the carbon management space, you see a lot of that happening.
But the question is, what's the pace? We need to go at this, and we need to go at it faster. And we need to keep the pressure on those companies if they're going to transition from the principal cause of pollution that's leading to climate change to being positive actors in spaces that allow the clean energy economy. Then they’ve got to step on the gas, as it were. It's probably a bad metaphor.
Q: But a lot of these companies are shifting their strategies back to more oil and gas. You say they need to pick up the pace, but they're going in the opposite direction. What's your response?
Podesta: That’s a phenomenon that really was set off by Russia's decision to conduct this illegal war in Ukraine. And that roiled the markets. It sent prices rising, and it caused the Europeans to understand their strategic vulnerability to being dependent on Russian fossil fuels. They had to ship quickly, but the net effect was to increase both the price and the profits of these companies.
It would be a mistake, in my judgment, to think the general shift away from fossil fuels towards clean energy has been permanently interrupted. If anything, it's been accelerated by the understanding that dependence on fossil fuels and fossil fuel infrastructure both has a profound and devastating climate effect and also makes you more strategically vulnerable and economically vulnerable to fluctuations in price and supply.
Q:Recent polling shows more people are experiencing extreme weather, and some 60% say global warming has a major role. Yet, we saw in the Republican presidential debate how climate continues to be this black and white football of ‘is it real, is it not?’ What's your response and what kind of impact could those divisions have on your job of rolling out this climate law?
Podesta: I’d say a couple of things. One is the urgency of tackling the climate crisis is just more apparent every day, whether that's the extreme heat in the southwest and 31 days of Phoenix above 110 degrees; the extreme flooding in the northeast and Vermont and upstate New York; the intensification of Hurricane Idalia over the hot waters of the Gulf; the fires and smoke coming from Canada; the continued fire threat in the American West. People are feeling this and experiencing it every day, and I think the public gets it.
The Republicans, particularly at the presidential candidate level, some at a congressional level, are out of sync with that reality. I think it's usually a bad bet to deny facts and deny reality in politics. In the short term, some people can take advantage of living in a fantasy world. But over time, that's usually a bad strategy.
And when I deal with Republican governors around the country, for the most part — those who are not running for president — they're enthusiastic about both deploying clean resources and attracting the clean manufacturing that has been really triggered by the Inflation Reduction Act.
Q: We saw the stock of Orsted, the world’s leading offshore wind producer, recently tumble 25% after it said it was writing off $2.3 billion because its U.S. wind business was slammed by interest rates, supply chain constraints and more. How worried are you about these challenges for clean energy writ large?
Podesta: Offshore wind has been particularly challenged by headwinds from higher interest rates, from supply chain issues. We're working hard and have been engaged fully with them to try to give them greater certainty on things like domestic content, so that they can really understand what the landscape looks like. We’re still optimistic that we can hit the target of 30 gigawatts by 2030.
Q: On the hydrogen tax credit in the Inflation Reduction Act, do you plan to allow existing nuclear power plants to be eligible?
Podesta: I think the questions around how to utilize existing nuclear and the production of hydrogen are definitely on the table.
Clean Energy Projects Are Booming Everywhere. Except in Poor Nations. — The New York Times Amy’s take: The focus on philanthropy initially is interesting. Read ‘til the end; the kicker quote is worth it!
US Providing Up to $12 Billion to Retrofit Auto Plants for EVs — Bloomberg
Amena’s take: U.S. automakers and unions are in the midst of negotiating wages, though U.S. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm told reporters the fund’s release wasn’t coincidental.
Ports in Europe Lure Investors Into Clean Energy Gateway Plan — Bloomberg
Anca’s take: I would want to know more about the challenges of switching operating models.
Climate-linked Ills Threaten Humanity — The Washington Post Bill’s take: This article highlights another way climate change is ravaging human health, especially in countries that were already vulnerable.
Germany accused of ‘ignoring emergency’ by rejecting energy subsidies for industry — Financial Times (paywall) Anca’s take: Concerns over industrial competitiveness have plagued Germany and the EU. Yet the issue of too many subsidies and state support remains sensitive — and politically tricky.
Amena’s take: Coal-dominated West Virginia is reaping the benefits of the Inflation Reduction Act's clean green subsidies.
How Ending Mine Disasters Could Help China’s Energy Security — Bloomberg Bill’s take: Few GHG emissions are as problematic as methane and few places are more important to address it than China. Here’s an idea for a double win the Chinese mining industry should take up.
More of what we're reading:
Africa Climate Summit links ‘unfair’ debt burden with calls to make continent’s green assets pay off — Associated Press
There’s a Vast Source of Clean Energy Beneath our Feet. And a Race to Tap It. — The New York Times
HARDER LINE COLUMN
With climate change, feeling is more powerful than knowing
With record-breaking heat waves saturating headlines this summer, one might grow tired of such repetitive news about extreme weather. Unless — or more likely, until — it happens to you.
It’s an adage as old as time: You never know how it feels until it happens to you. It’s a phenomenon we humans experience with so many things: gun violence, health scares, grief and more.
As extreme weather exacerbated by global warming becomes more common, we are increasingly seeing this adage in action in community after community.
“Climate change can feel like something that’s a distant concern. Something that will happen to other people at another time,” said Laura Carter Robinson, a clinical psychologist who’s on the executive committee of the Climate Psychology Alliance of North America. “When it does happen, it becomes salient. It’s relevant to you because it’s happening right here, right now, and it’s a shock to the system.”
With climate change’s omnipresence across the world, we all face a high risk that we will, eventually, directly experience its impacts.
When leaders of the world’s 20 richest countries gather in India this weekend, they will confront an unsettling fact: Their collective emissions from coal-fired electricity actually increased over the last seven years.
A fresh analysis from Europe-based climate think tank Ember found that the Group of 20’s shift to clean power is not happening fast enough to outpace a rise in coal use among some of its members.
The findings highlight countries’ conflicting agendas as they try to grow their individual economies and work together to tackle climate change.
G20 leaders, including United States President Joe Biden, are set to meet in the Indian capital of New Delhi on September 9 and 10. China’s president Xi Jinping is expected to skip the summit for the first time, according to media reports, and so is Russian President Vladimir Putin, who also missed the last group summit in Indonesia.
Although more than half of all G20 countries decreased their per capita coal emissions between 2015 (the year the Paris Climate Agreement was signed) and 2022, those reductions weren’t big enough to offset increases elsewhere in the bloc.
Australia and South Korea, the group’s top polluters, each emit over three times the global average and more than twice the G20 average, Ember found.
The G20 could make or break global efforts to accelerate the uptake of clean power, according to Ember. The summit could also offer a preview of what’s to come at the United Nations climate conference later this year (known as COP28).
“As the world’s largest economies, the G20 has the opportunity to prepare the scene at the G20 Summit and show that investing in renewables, rather than persisting with coal dependency, brings multiple benefits,” Ember said.
AND FINALLY...
Power running
I snapped this photo on a recent run in Spokane, WA. Notice the power line up ahead on the trail winding down to a power station. The local utility posted a sign to expect maintenance work to disrupt these trails for the next couple of weeks. As I noted in our first-ever Cipher edition nearly two years ago, my runs are no less beautiful and fulfilling with power lines crisscrossing them. We all need to become more accepting of more power lines.
Each week, we feature a photo that is somehow related to energy, the thing we all need but don’t notice until it’s expensive or gone. Email your ideas and photos to news@ciphernews.com.
Editor’s note: In addition to supporting Cipher, Breakthrough Energy also supports and partners with a range of entities working to tackle climate change, including nonprofits, corporations, startups and research firms. For more information on Cipher’s editorial policy, click here.
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